“A Deer In The City” Photo by Jo-Anne McArthur
Yesterday, we began a discussion about awareness and mindfulness when making changes and choices. Today, we can add to that discussion, and also talk about how to extend your choices into the public sphere, or into social events or gatherings. With American Thanksgiving coming up in a week, and Christmas and Chanukah next month, this is a significant time of year where so many of the issues are illuminated.
Simonee mentioned having a dinner event for the evening, so maybe we can start here. What concerns do you have about either hosting or attending a dinner with regard to sharing your food choices? Are there other challenges you face as you move through your GFJ?
Coaches Rosemary and Donna
The opinions we express as GFJ Coaches are ours personally. We are not professional health practitioners. Neither are we treating a specific health care issue. That means we are not offering advice on health-care problems. If you are experiencing a health-care problem, it is important to seek the advice of a health professional. However we are experienced, practicing vegans and we look forward to coaching you on your journey.
Hi Everyone,
Funny you should ask…
So last night was an interesting one. I raced out to see a friend’s film at TIFF. Afterwards I found myself out of a film a little later than expected craving a glass of vino and needing to eat! At almost 10 pm last thing I wanted to do was cook.
We headed to a favourite local spot, where they’re usually game to make substitutions for me. If pasta on the menu comes with meat, I get ‘em to take it out☺
We got there, I asked the lovely owner to get something vegan going and… nothing was available. Egg in the pasta. Cream in the soup. Even the potato salad on the appetizer list had egg in the dressing.
I was hungry and cranky – not too much fun to be with. I think the owner was frazzled and a little cranky too. I made her cranky:( I ended up back at my place with my vino and a peanut butter and banana sandwich. It was hard. And more importantly, it wasn’t easy.
Tonight we have dinner plans with friends who we haven’t seen in a while and I’m not sure how that’ll go. I was looking at canceling but that doesn’t work for me. As insightful as that guy was at the grocery store – I wonder how often he eats out with friends. That’s a big part of our life.
So here we are day 4, a lot less perky than day 1 and needing and looking for guidance. I turn it to you GF friends to share your stories of inspiration.
Big hug☺
Good Morning Simonee!
Sounds like you had an experience last night that so many of us of had ! Not finding anything on the menu – cranky or unaccomodating chefs and going home hungry! Can you explain more about your feelings that ‘more importantly, it wasn’t easy” ?
I think that it iswonderful that you expressed your food preferences to the chef. Some people are less comfortable about this in the beginning and will simply not say anything – maybe order a plain baked potato and a cup of tea – and then go home and cook. I personally have experieced a range of reactions in restaurants – from places that are happy to have the opportunity to get creative to places where they claim to never have heard of pizza without cheese.
Is dinner tonight going to be at a restaurant or a friends’ house? Are you comfortable telling your friends in advance that you are taking this journey ?. Most of us find that the worst time to discuss food issues is when we are already sitting down to a meal – other people can become very defensive even when their food choices are not being directly challenged.
Hi Rosemary,
I think the owner was trying to accommodate me but it just wasn’t on their menu…Know what I mean? Sometimes they have options but yesterday was a no go and in actuality I created the crankiness not the other way around.
Tonight’s dinner is at a restaurant. I would never head to someone’s house without letting them know about my dietary restrictions. Tonight, we’re at the wine bar on College – a favourite spot of ours… I’m not at all shy about making requests and know the people I’ll be eating with are cool, but ultimately I’ll be asking people in the kitchen to change something for me. Happy to do it tonight but wonder what the longview of something like this looks like? Beyond the 5 day journey…
How do you or others manage? And truthfully – do you go out less than you used to?
Hi Simonee – as Rosemary has siad, it gets easier – actually it simply becomes second nature. I definitely go ou a lot less than I used to but that is due to other factors (age, having a child, finances).
When I first became vegan, even though I was living in NYC, there really weren’t very many restaurants geared towards this. But eating at ethnic restaurants was very helpful. I suppose that I was lucky in terms of friends and co-workers. They were respectful of my beliefs even if they didn’t share them, and always made sure that if something was planned, it would be at a place where there were options for me. They were often more outspoken at the restaurants than I was in asking about ingredients.
Quite simply, I do not feel deprived when I am out to dinner if for example there are no dessert options other than fruit. I might wish that they could be more creative – but I am not tempted by the non-vegan choices. I think that this feeling comes with time – and as Lorena said yesterday, for me it is all about the animals. When I look at something, I see the animals – and it all becomes really simple.
Hi Simonee,
I have never liked to ‘make a fuss’ about my preferences as a guest or out at a restaurant. I grew up learning to be a ‘good guest’ and all my parents friends loved me cuz I ate everything they gave me and never left food on my plate. I was worried about this when I began my journey over a year ago now, and funnily enough it has been kind of liberating because I have learned to ask for what I need. Now I don’t go out a whole bunch, having 2 kids at home who are still in school, but when I do go out I find my friends like to get creative about where we can go to eat to get vegan options. I feel that Toronto has to be one of the best places in the world for this because of our international cuisine.
My other point about the GFJ is that it is a journey without judgement and that is why I love it. It is about making change and doing your personal best. That’s all you can do. No judgement.
We have all been there, and all I can say is that it gets easier as you move forward. You’ll find ways to dine out and with others who aren’t vegan, or restaurants that don’t have specified vegan items on the menu. Here are some helpful links with tips:
https://yourveganbff.blogspot.com/2011/11/vegan-etiquette-for-vegans-and-non.html
https://vegansaurus.com/post/13973188781
https://ccc.farmsanctuary.org/be-a-better-advocate/read-essays-and-books/effectiveadvocacy/
It really sounds like you did your best with requesting something to fit your needs. Some people don’t even ask! I remember being cranky at first as well, because for me the reason I was doing it wasn’t internalized. Now, I’m glad to do things differently because I have a reason to that means so much to me. Perhaps in time, you’ll feel more at ease with the transition and more relaxed about it.
For the first year, I gave myself permission to eat really simply and focus on learning about the “why” I was choosing to go vegan as opposed to “how”. Again, we all have our own unique paths to take through this. I didn’t have a network of support, so I read a lot, and decided not to worry about making food from recipes. Once I found my groove psychologically and spiritually, and learned about vegan nutrition, I sought out more involved recipes.
We eat out often, and travel quite a bit. I keep it simple, and when in doubt or have fewer choices, I order a large salad and baked potato with salsa. I look at these situations, as this isn’t my last meal….I can handle it.
One last resource here….Colleen Patrick -Goudreau has wonderful books and videos about these topics. She has a gentle and respectful way of working in challenging social situations. 🙂
Thanks Rosemary – good tips! I’ll be sure to treat myself to some books in the near future.
I have to run out for a few hours but wanted to add something before I left. The 5-Day Journey is different for everybody. Not everyone ends it ready to go out and live a vegan lifestyle right away. It is really an opportunity to explore, become informed, feel supported and find an approach that works for you.
It is ultra important that you are patient with yourself – and do not judge yourself harshly. We talk about the importance of not being judgemental with others – but must learn to apply that to ourselves.
I think that feelings of discouragement occur when we see a goal as not attainable or just too difficult and then beat ourselves over the head for not reaching it – then we think- well, maybe it’s just too hard. As you have pointed out yourself – awareness is so important – and love too.
Hey Simonee,
Patience. Yes, that’s definitely the most important thing.
I took the journey here last time around — I was the most recent (journeyer? alumni?) I remember getting all worried because I (instinctively) snagged a cookie from a dinner plate at a meeting and ate half of it before realizing it probably wasn’t vegan.
I’m really glad you’re doing this, because it really is wonderful. Just reading over your journey so far — you’re extremely insightful. Like you said yesterday, mindfulness and awareness. Actually, you know what? Those are the most important things (Not to knock patience.)
And hey, you’re doing great. Aggravation can come with the territory a little, but it passes. I came out of the journey more focused on empathy with animals, more aware of how to address the stigma I was subjecting myself to, but I don’t really sweat if an hour later I realize something I ate may have had a touch of butter.
Thanks so much Donna and Rosemary for doing this. It’s awesome. And Simonee, keep it up!
Davis, thank you for sharing your process and supporting Simonee. It takes a village….. <3
It’s so awesome to see you here Davis!
Hi Simonee! I’ve asked my mom to chime in on this because I know very well that not only did she have this obstacle in her journey, she still runs into it every now and then. I should tell you she handles it MUCH better than I do. (Much better is an understatement, she’s a saint!)
When I transitioned to vegan I distanced myself from my non-veg friends, now we eat out whenever we can! What we do is this, I pick 3 restaurants I know I can find something I’ll love, then they all pick one from the three. Ultimately my preference guides the group, but what’s amazing to see is my friends trying new things! Quite often they’ll actually try a vegan meal, and they’re shocked that it’s great! I think they think I sit eating salads for breakfast lunch and dinner, with tree bark sprinkled in here and there. haha!
Also! PLEASE tell me you’re near the Kensington Market, or that you can get there! There is a place, Hot Beans, oh my lord! Go there, thank me later (or scold me for introducing you to the best eats ever) Or Sadie’s, it’s on Adelaide, amazing amazing comforty food type vegan stuffs. King’s Cafe too! What kind of food and atmosphere do you like? There are SO many options in TO (I’m completely jealous that you live close to my favorite place AND all the best foods!)
That said, I totally understand your frustration, and knowing myself when I’m hungry, I know not being able to get food might make me explode. Eating out just requires a wee bit of planning, a little more work. Once you’re used to it though, it is, like Donna said, second nature. And remember, it’s not about perfection, it’s about thoughtful choices, and you’re doing that!
Hey Simonee!! You are doing great, it takes steps and all those steps make a different. One trick I found when I was going out was to order sides. Sometimes in a restaurant I will order a few sides… a side of rice, their seasonal vegetables and a side salad. I never thought of this till a friend who was on a super diet did this… it can work. All of my friends know that I eat this way now, so we try to plan restaurants ahead of time. I ALWAYS check the menu before hand and if there isn’t something good for me I will suggest somewhere else. In a pinch, I usually grab sides.
I went through a lot of frustrations on my journey travelling, but I always try to remember the whys. It does get easier, promise.
Hang in there!!!
Simonee, I travel a lot for work and am regularly in unfamiliar cities, airports & food courts (gross!). In my social life I also often find myself in a situation where I need to ask for changes to the menu (and not all chef’s are accommodating!) I refuse to stay home or avoid eating out, so I do often end up just eating “side dishes” such as a plate of veggies & some rice. But I still enjoy good company and good conversation! I prefer restaurants that offer entrees that I can eat, but I wont be put off going, even if I know I wont get a decent meal! As an emergency fix, I always carry a little bag of seeds & nuts which I can quickly nibble on to relieve the urgency when I get “hangry”. This doesn’t replace a proper meal, but it does help me deal with the situation better than if I am about to faint from hunger!
Good Luck & don’t despair. *hugs*
Thank you, Danielle, Jennie and Kelly for your contributions. It’s so helpful to know other people share your concerns and find creative solutions!
Jennie, I love your point about focusing on the company and good conversation and carrying your nuts and seeds in case of emergency.
Kelly, it’s a great idea to focus on sides in a pinch and if doubt sets in, to think about “why am I doing this”.
Danielle, I really like the idea of offering 3 choices and letting others have the final pick. Brilliant! BTW…can you imagine if we had the restaurant choices here is Rochester that Toronto does….I think I would feel like I hit the lottery! 🙂
Toronto is better than most places but more so for veg than for vegan. You know who’s got it good? LA! We love it there and do spend 3-4 months a year there. I’m headed South for February and definitely looking forward to it just for the diet stuff alone. Not to mention the sunshine:)
Oh my gosh!!! I’d be eating out every night Rosemary! 😀
Hi Simonee! I wrote a very long comment, but a computer error erased the whole thing (ugh!). I’ll try to sum up what I said quickly in 3 points:
1) It’s very common to feel cranky or tired when making dietary changes. I try to think of being vegan through a lens of abundance rather than deprivation. Instead of all the things I don’t eat, I think of all the things I never would have tried otherwise. Plus, my meals are a lot more beautiful and colorful now. Keeping lots of handy snacks around, like nuts, fruit, dried fruit, hummus, carrots, etc. makes life easier, too.
2) Sorry that you had that unfortunate restaurant experience, but kudos to you for speaking up for yourself. I eat out a lot, and don’t eat out any less since becoming vegan. It can be frustrating to go to a restaurant with few to no options. If I can, I look at menus ahead of time online, and very often I call ahead to see what’s available. If I can’t be bothered with this, it’s always a safe bet to go to an ethnic restaurant. I refuse to compromise my ethical principles, but I also know that veganism isn’t about perfection. This means that I’m not going to ask if they will cook my meal separately, that they’ve changed their gloves to handle my food, etc. This may be important to some people, but I find it counter-productive to the vegan movement (and a pain). Over the years, I’ve been finding it easier and easier to find vegan food at any restaurant.
3) I know you’re going to dinner at a restaurant, but when going to dinner parties in people’s homes, my M.O. is to let the host/hostess know ahead of time that I don’t eat meat/dairy/eggs (it seems to be easier for people to digest -pun intended- than telling them I’m vegan). I also tell them that I’ll bring a main dish to share, and that I don’t need any special accommodations. This works well for two reasons: 1) Hosts/Hostesses almost always try to do their best to accommodate you anyway (and they will be embarrassed if you don’t give them a heads up); and 2) People will try your dish, and enjoy it, making it a very nice time to explain veganism. I never avoid social situations due to being vegan (unless I’ve been invited to a pig roast or something horrible like that), and now that I think of it, I don’t have any friends that I interact with on a regular basis that are vegan (besides my momma, Coach Rosemary). So, it certainly hasn’t put a dent in my social life.
Wishing you all the best on your journey 🙂
~Adrienne
Thank you for joining in Adrienne – I love what you said about looking at it through a lens of abundance rather than deprivation.. This really does sum it up so perfectly!!
I am so thrilled to see all of the great comments here from Davis, Jennie, Danielle ad Kelly!! Thank you so much for joining in and supporting Simonee. Davis – I am so glad that everything is going so well with you!
I don’t know if you have had a chance to read through these comments yet, Simonee, bur hopefully you will feel reassured by the common experiences that most people have – especially in the beginning.
As Jennie has mentioned, it’s a great idea to carry around a little bag of nuts, etc. just in case. I try to always have an energy bar in my handbag.
I really do think that in time, this will become pretty much a non-issue for you as you relax about it. Also, there’s no doubt that the food industry is becoming increasingly aware of the desires for vegan foods – it will get easier and easier to find something – even in the most unexpected places.
Wow guys! Much great advice and more importantly supportive words!
I see there’s a lot of resourcefulness among people but no mention of anyone turning back? Is that true? Have you ever found yourself eating pasta with eggs in it – aware or unaware? Or has everyone been good about their transition?
I’m endeavoring to go for it after this journey but truthfully can’t see me bringing nuts to the wine bar anytime soon. That said, maybe in time… It’s not that I think it crazy or ridiculous so please don’t get me wrong! I just don’t see that being satisfying for me right now. I know that I’m already in a much different place than I was 4 days ago but I think my evolution to the pure state that exists on this blog is still some time away:(
Thanks to all of you for chiming in! Such great spirit and wise words.
I know that I have eaten some things unintentionally. I don’t remember the brand exactly, but there were cookies (one of those accidentally -vegan types) that I had eaten for a while. Then one day, I started to read the packaging again (something that I hadn’t done since the fist time), and now all of a sudden there was whey in the recipe. I was bummed out but I didn’t get down on myself for it.
I am already 23 years into my journey, Simonee and so I am in a very different place – and still it is a journey for me. I think that it is wonderful that you already feel a difference in just 4 days – really that is fantastic!! I have never turned back – once my eyes were open, it wasn’t even a possbility.
As fas as bringing nuts to a wine bar – I have never actually brought things to a restaurant and eaten them right out in the open. I have gone into the ladies room to eat an energy bar or something (I know – not the most appealing place to eat something!).
That is funny Donna about the energy bar, I have done the same thing! I never ever leave the house without something non-perishable in my handbag. I learned my lesson many years ago when I went to an all day family reunion– the only food available for me was the fruit. I was starving, but at least the company was wonderful. Now when I go out, I always carry a granola bar, small bags of trail mix, anything ready to eat.
Good point, Diane – keeping in mind that the company was wonderful. Bringing our own little snackies allows us to keep our blood sugar from plummeting and becoming cranky. No meal is going to be the be-all, end-all and getting together with friends and family is about the bonds we have in common more so than what we don’t have in common.
Hi Simonee,
Robust honest conversation here! For me veganism is not about achieving perfection all of the time. It’s about doing my best for the animals, for the planet, and for my physical and spiritual health. We live in a world where animal products and byproducts have become the fallback and cheap pervasive ingredient. If a consumer wants something to taste “creamy” they naturally purchase something with dairy in it. If a consumer wants something durable and long lasting they naturally purchase a leather product. Animals are bits and parts of so many common products, and so moving away from supporting that dominant system is HUGE and liberating, but not always easy. My advice to anyone trying to be Ghost-Free is that it shouldn’t be a drag, or feel like homework. Find your comfort zone, it’s a journey. For many of us it is a lifelong journey, and others dabble with it. The important thing is to find your own truth with it. The best way to do that I think is to learn about the issues — which is why we are making THE GHOSTS IN OUR MACHINE — we hope to reach a broad audience about a subject that is too often hidden from our view.
Peace Out.
– Liz
Very well said Liz, I agree!
Here is an article about “personal purity vs. effective advocacy” that I think you’ll find relevant to this topic.
https://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/links/p2362/personal-purity.pdf
Try to just do your best, and if you slip up intentionally or unintentionally, just move on…the Vegan Police won’t come get you!
🙂
Excellent article!
Yes – a really great article!! I remember reading something that I think was written by Carol Adams – she called herself an aspiring vegan. Not because she consumed/used things that were made from animals, but because (as the article points out), it is virtually impossible to be ‘pure”. I know that I worried a lot about this type of thing in the beginning of my journey. What if I got a ride somewhere and the person had leather seats? So many thoughts like that – it could paralyze you and make you think that there’s not much point – that if you can’t be perfect why do it at all?
But every positive step that we take is a wonderful one. Focus on the good, focus on the day – not so much worrying about “what if I’m tempted tomorrow”, and above all, remember that there are many who are here to support you on your journey – and it IS your journey – one that you will take in your own way.
I LOVE this article and think the writer nailed it! I’m off to dinner and will check in tomorrow am. Thanks for all the inspiration!
oxS
Hope that you have a truly lovely dinner tonight!!!
xoxo
Check out this delicious hearty recipe for vegan ‘lentil walnut loaf’ YUM! https://lovethycarrot.com/?p=1793
Hi Simonee:
I feel as if I am chiming in on this conversation a bit late. Forgive me. I just wanted to add as a GFJ alumna that I went through a similar process of challenges when undergoing my journey in Eastern Europe last November.
I really wanted to emphasize, though, that the thing that got me through it all was how much better I felt on average eating a vegan diet. There were times where I was concerned about the impressions I was making as a demanding guest or as some one opting out of turkey, etc. for Thanksgiving … not that I am easily influenced by the disapproval of others.
I believe that the important thing to focus on is how do you feel, how is your body responding, how has your overall spirit changed. We are so accustomed to seeing food as a vehicle for acceptance and togetherness, that I sometimes feel that the more important matters get distorted.
It is a journey for sure (and this includes all of the ethical choices that we make, i.e. beauty and household products, clothing, shoes, recreations, etc) but I genuinely feel that awareness, first and foremost, makes a person amazingly attractive and alluring.
In the end, your actions – particularly the small steps, will have such resonance.
Enjoy the process and allow yourself of the luxury of experiencing something that takes you out of the norm. I struggle with this all of the time … as I am not 100% vegan (YET), but I feel that doing things with open eyes makes the journey more savory and nourishing in the end.
Love … to those who may not have the luxury of making the decisions that we can and might, for the ghost ~ Abigail
And of course, I have a few typos above … namely, FOR THE GHOSTS.
Thank you for your thoughtful insight and reflections, Abigail. <3
I love how your phrased taking this step by step, and doing the GFJ with awareness and open eyes.
It certainly allows you to see and experience the world in a different way.
Hi Simonee,
I don’t have the opportunity to get on Facebook as much as I’d like but I’d like to let you know that I too have gone through the same scenarios that you mentioned. On my first week of my Journey, I went to South Carolina to visit a good friend of mine with my sister. The south is not ‘vegan friendly’ at all…well, I can’t say at all. We stopped at an Applebee’s on our way down from upstate NY and they were not accommodating at all. I didn’t see anything on the menu that I cared to eat other than salad. I asked what came with the salad and explained what ‘vegan’ was and then after she told me I asked for a salad with tomatoes and other vegetables if that was possible without any cheese or dressing. She didn’t seem to comprehend what I was saying and she returned with a bowl of lettuce with tomatoes and smothered with cheese. Let me preface this with the fact that my sister is not vegan and is very ‘vocal’ about it. She thought it was rude that I explained the word ‘vegan’. I had also been driving all day and was very tired and hungry. When she returned with our food, I looked at the salad I almost started to cry. I started to try to remove the cheese from my salad and my sister grabbed the plate and went into the kitchen. This only made me more upset. She returned with lettuce. At this point I didn’t even care to eat anymore. She finished her dinner and we left. I had crackers in the car. We were able to find restaurants that offered pasta and tried to be accommodating…and on the menu. Before we left on the trip I had googled restaurants that were vegan friendly in South Carolina and we were able to find some that were very accommodating. My girlfriend’s son is manager of a restaurant in South Carolina and he made me a veggie burger with portabella mushrooms that was very good. We also found a buffet that offered a pasta bar which was great as they would add whatever you wanted and you could actually see what was in it. I learned a big lesson after this though. Now when people invite us to dinner, I call the restaurant directly to see if they can accommodate my living choices. I find that some are more than happy to and others that are not so accommodating. I bring a bag with my own food into restaurants…salad dressings, parmesan cheese, butter etc. just in case.
Just recently we were invited to a dinner for one of the groups my husband and I do volunteer work for. It was $25 for each of us, which isn’t much at all; however, there were no vegan items on the menu. I contacted the chef and he was very accommodating…he agreed to make me a pasta with zucchini and yellow squash and I brought him a package of Gardien chicken which he cooked for me. They did have a steamed vegetable which I also ate but that was it. When they called our table to go to the buffet, they delivered my dinner to me. I do realize that people have to make their own choices…vegan is my choice.
Don’t give up your journey. I started last year the end of October and am still going strong. This Thanksgiving is going to be different as I am not cooking the meal. I will bring my own ‘unmeat’ and our hostess will be making everything else. This is a big step for them as they are starting to eat differently. I know that they will never give up their meat but to me, this is a BIG improvement. It’s the little steps that make the big difference. I know we can’t change people overnight…I was originally going to go vegetarian but when the 10-day challenge came up I thought…why not go all the way…and I still am!
Simonee,
I should have said October of 2011…I’m into my second year now 🙂
One other thing and then I will stop 🙂 We all make mistakes now and then. I try to read the labels the best I can, but in restaurants they don’t tell you everything. I do eat the food and then when I get home I google the ingredients – there are time when I do see that they contained eggs or milk – I just prepare better for the next time I go there.
I know I have purchased food from the grocery store and then have my daughter look and she says ‘no Mom, this has xxxx in it’ and I look and say ‘where do you see that – I read it in the store’ but it is there. Those foods that I purchased I donate to our local food pantry. Every day is a new learning experience.
Cheryl, you have come such a long way in one year since your GFJ! I remember how reluctant you were to cook for yourself, and depended on Danielle to prepare your meals. Now you’re looking at labels, and finding other products that are cruelty-free.
We’re so thrilled that you have been able to sustain the changes you’ve made, make compassionate choices, and feel great about it.
Keep up the good work…For the Ghosts!