Jo-Anne McArthur and her beloved Sammy. Photo courtesy of Liz Marshall.
Good morning, Davis. The past 4 days of your journey have been filled with amazing discussions. We have loved being a part of this experience – your insights, candor and openness are admirable. Today is Day 5 – the final day of your ‘official’ Journey. But as we all know, the journey continues throughout our lives.
You posed 2 very interesting topics for today. The first has to do with staying the course – in your words ” Sometimes it’s a slippery slope – eat something you think might have butter in it, but you’re not sure, and then before too long you’re right back where you started.” The second topic is ” since this is really all about animals, I feel we should have some discussion about how we can directly introduce ways in our lives to interact with, appreciate and understand the animals around us – to be more aware of their presence and more appreciative and respectful of their lives”.
The opinions we express as GFJ Coaches are ours personally. We are not professional health practitioners. Neither are we treating a specific health care issue. That means we are not offering advice on health-care problems. If you are experiencing a health-care problem, it is important to seek the advice of a health professional. However we are experienced, practicing vegans and we look forward to coaching you on your journey..
Hi all!
It’s been a great week and I can’t believe today’s the last day. I was wondering if anyone has struggled with staying vegan once they’ve gone vegan, especially since there’s so much to watch out for and it can be hard in a busy schedule. It’s easy enough for me to be somewhere with food that I’m not sure about (and no one else knows) — so I just have a bite, and eventually I’m not thinking about it at all anymore. Especially for those who did like dairy and eggs before they became vegan, how did you enforce yourself?
Hi Davis! Do you travel often – is this why you can easily be where there is food that you don’t know the ingredients of (and nobody else does either) ?
I do – I’m on the road a LOT. I used to travel cross-country (by car) pretty frequently, but now my job necessitates a lot of driving in the same area. In both cases, I find myself getting pretty familiar with Subway — it’s often the only vegetarian food I can find.
Davis, I travel quite a bit as well. I find it helpful to bring my arsenal of vegan food while on the road or visiting. I never assume that I will have that available, so it puts me at ease to take care of myself.
Simple things, like peanut butter, veggies, nuts, dried fruit, fresh fruit, all travel pretty well. I also tend to bring Vega products (especially Whole Food Optimizer), that has a good amount of protein, but also other necessary nutrients. Super Green Food is in powder form, so it also travels anywhere and I’m sure to get in (9) servings of green veggies in a serving!
As far as eating at restaurants, I’m very assertive, but respectful about asking to modify a dish . Most restaurants will do this happily. If not, I order a large salad and baked potato, and I say to myself “this isn’t the last supper” and I can be satisfied with that.
You’ll get in the groove of what works for you in your diet, and find yummy things you can eat without the feeling of deprivation. It take a little time to find it, but be patient with yourself and others 🙂
Do you feel that you might have difficulties because you might want to eat certain foods or because of the whole social issue – being out and being the one to ask lots of questions.
I’m not necessarily crazy about being assertive — I tend to worry about being overbearing. That said, if I’m at a restaurant I generally having no problem asking. Sometimes, though, it is a little unfortunate to be the only person who can’t eat anything on the table.
I try to express myself in these situations (when assertion is called upon) with clear, but gently communication. I don’t want to bat anyone over the head or launch into a lecture about why there should be more vegan options to my server or with my company.
If there aren’t options on the table for you, usually there is something available in the kitchen they can find for you, such as butter substitutes, olive oil and vinegar, or salsa.
Simple statements or questions, without being overbearing or conspicuous…like “may I have some olive oil to dip this bread in”, or “I’ll take my coffee black” if there aren’t any non-dairy options in view, or “would you mind asking the chef to make this veggie wrap without the cheese”. I don’t think these statements are inappropriate…. after all, so many people have allergies or sensitivities that practically everyone modifies their order these days. You’ll be more comfortable as you practice and feel comfortable in your choices.
From Donna:
In the beginning of changing how we eat, we can feel uncomforatble asking to be accomodated. If
we’re at a restaurant, we worry that our friends will feel like we are making a scene. I have
been at this for a long time – and in truth there was only 1 incident where somebody at a
restaurant was not only unaccomodating but downright rude and ridiculous. It was at an Italian
restaurant in the town of Pa. that I am from – my sister still lives there. We went one night
and ordered pizza wo/ cheese – just fresh tomatoes, olive oil and some seasonings on top. We had
ordered that a month earlier and it was delicious. The guy at the bar who was taking our order
said “nah – never heard of it”. It became almost comical with my sister and I trying to explain
that it was pretty basic – leave out the cheese – if fresh tomatoes were an issue, use sauce,
but no cheese. Once again – “nah – never heard of it”. We asked him to check with the kitchen
since they had made this before and he said “I wouldn’t know how to explain it”. I can tell you
that my sister who is not vegetarian was the one who was livid at this point. I found it
hysterical. You might find that your friends and family become assertive in asking for special
dishes for you – if not, I think you will get quite comfortable with it.
I love this, Donna. It sounds like a cross between a Soprano’s episode and Seinfeld “no pizza for you”!
It reminds me of Jack Nicholson ordering toast in the movie “Five Easy Pieces” — “I’ll take a chicken salad sandwich, no chicken, no salad.” Really, is it that hard to conceive of a pizza without cheese? Wow!
Another interesting topic!
To answer the first bit, about staying true to veganism when you travel, or if you’re just someone who for whatever reason eats away from home a lot…I think there are two schools here. There are people who will go hungry before they eat something that might possibly contain a bit of egg or butter, and if they don’t know, they don’t touch it. There are others who might say that you do your best and you move through your life (and your vegan journey) with *intention.* Farm Sanctuary’s Bruce Friedrich has said the animals don’t need your purity — they need your advocacy. What he meant by that (in part) was that you do animals more good when you don’t make veganism look impossible to non-vegans than you do by deciding that if something might have a quarter teaspoon of butter in it that you can’t eat it. So where you set that bar for yourself is your decision, but I wouldn’t worry about sliding back to square one — when you’re in it for the animals, I just can’t see that happening. Stay involved in the community, keep reading about the animals (I can’t imagine reaching the point where I think I know the deal and I don’t have to read anymore, I don’t have to expose myself to the videos and images… staying in it keeps me committed, keeps me advocating for animals every day). It all serves to strengthen the connections you’ve made between animal suffering and what you are or are not doing to support or alleviate it.
As for the animals themselves, my best suggestion is to volunteer at a shelter or visit a sanctuary. It will change your life. When I was a new vegetarian I would sometimes find myself in a situation with no veg food and someone would say, “Well, you know, it’s already dead…” Uh-uh, no way, absolutely not. Once your “meat” has not only a face, but a name and a personality, the very thought of eating a slice of bacon (I gotta say, I cringed just typing that) becomes unconscionable. Once you connect with farmed animals as individuals, you just see everything differently and it all becomes so easy.
I love how you phrased it, Debra “So where you set that bar for yourself is your decision, but I wouldn’t worry about sliding back to square one — when you’re in it for the animals, I just can’t see that happening. ”
I think that some people feel that if they one day eat a bisuit or something and they didn’t know if there was butter in it, that it’s the end. People can be very hard on themselves and I think that it can sometimes be one’s own harsh judgement of oneself that gets in the way of continuing on.
Debra, that’s one of the best responses I’ve ever heard to this question. It’s a great way to think about it! When I’ve tried to go vegan in the past, I always felt guilty after eating something that I later realized probably had some eggs or butter or some other animal product in it somewhere. So rather than feel guilty, I can try to avoid it, but realize that in the long run it does much more damage to hold myself down to a standard that a lot of people consider impossible, and damage to me to make myself feel like a bad person because I ate some bread made with eggs.
Debra, I love this response. It allows us to be human. It allows us to love ourselves for our intention and to always try again without judgement. Eating a plant based diet shouldn’t be riddled with guilt and self-righteousness and a quest for perfection. Very few people experience a shift when encumbered by extreme restraint and constriction. And very few people make the change themselves when confronted by an almost extremist stance. Let your light shine warmly and others will be drawn to it even if it wavers a little.
Debra, you have expressed “the journey” in such a beautiful way. The fact is, we don’t really know how and why each person has a certain way of maintaining a way of life (veganism) and why some find it more difficult. We all have different circumstances, health issues, ethical viewpoints that are purist or not.
I feel we can only do our best to align our ethics with our behavior; it’s not about being perfect.
When I think about this for myself, I try to base my actions on ethics about use of animals, and on the alignment with reverence for all life…including how this impacts the environment, other humans, and spirituality. The reasons for being vegan in this vein, cannot be disputed in my estimation. That said, I agree with Debra, and what Bruce Friedrich say about being a perfect vegan; it’s impossible, but the I do my best with living my life as a vegan.
I don’t always read every label for subtle ingredients, I don’t always ask the waitress to take back a salad that may have some bits of cheese on it, I don’t ask if the chef cooked my veg burger on the same grill as meat, etc. For me, I don’t think this is as important as all the things I have made changes with. I’m still using products in my home that may have been tested on animals, I still have a few wool sweaters and leather shoes that I continue to wear. I will not go out and buy these products now, but the process and awareness I have drives my choices now.
I hope you will continue this journey, and honor your own process with the support of others. As Debra also points out, we’re in this together, there is so much information and support out there, and the on-going process of learning is key.
You’ve done an amazing job at exploring this week, and we wish you the best in your adventure!
I just want to leave one more comment…what you said about wool and leather made me think of it, Rosemary.
Many of us are SO hard on ourselves, and especially if we’re involved in activism we tend to assume that other vegans are “perfect,” so we put all this pressure on ourselves to be perfect too. We probably do know a couple or three “perfect” vegans, insomuch as that kind of perfection is even possible. But instead of being obsessed with being the perfect vegan, I think we benefit the animals more by doing our best to serve their interests every day, to not be hostile even when we’re confronted with hostility, and not make veganism look an impossible ideal. Act with intention. And when you fall short, accept it and move on.
Davis, you need to see this! https://ccc.farmsanctuary.org/be-a-better-advocate/read-essays-and-books/effectiveadvocacy/
Good luck and stay in touch!
Thanks for posting the essay by Bruce Friedrich, Debra. It’s very interesting and has alot of practical suggestions.
Here is another article by James McWilliams, where he addresses the idea that advocacy and abolition can coexist together. Again, raising the notion of non-purity and perfection can still significantly impact animals in a positive way. I like both of these men because they talk about it from an inclusion perspective, ……For the Ghosts!
https://james-mcwilliams.com/?p=2151
I have enormous respect for James McWilliams and hadn’t gotten round to reading his latest yet — thanks for posting! For me, he really hits the nail on the head.
This is a post from Donna (she is currently unable to access the website). She asked me to post this on her behalf.
Hi Davis! I have been thinking about your question regarding interacting with animals and being
able to appreciate them and to be more aware of their presence.
Going to sanctuaries will connect you with animals that you don’t normally get to see or
interact with on a regular basis. This will be a truly beautiful expereince for you.
Sometimes we might overlook the importance and beauty of simple interactions. I find that every
animal who crosses my path provides me with an opportunity – it might not always be a chance to
interact, but at the very least to observe. I delight in watching dogs drink water from the
container that I have in front of my shop, I am in awe of squirrels and chipmunks running around
with their cheeks puffed out, I say Good Morning to the birds, I could spend long periods of
time watcing hummingbirds visit one flower after another. I think that once your overall
awareness is raised, you feel a kinship with all animals. What a great feeling this is!
I can’t wait to go to a sanctuary and I’ll update everyone with photos as soon as I go!
One great thing about where I am in Connecticut is the abundance of small wildlife like birds and squirrels, who I love seeing. The terrible downside of that is how many end up dying on the road. It’s always a fear of mine I’m going to hit one when I’m driving. I try to spend as much time in nature as I can here — hiking, camping, etc. — where I can be a little closer to animals who haven’t been encroached upon by development.
Davis, How does it feel to have had such focus on your journey this week? What has changed for you in terms of your outlook? Are you craving animal protein?
Veganism is a journey, not just for 5-days, but for a lifetime, because it’s about making choices that are outside of the dominant system around us. Sometimes it’s hard, while other times it is just natural. And, it’s not about being perfect. I equate it with my commitment to being an environmental steward – I do my best to buy products that are non-toxic and “green”.
All the best to you and stay in touch with us! There will be lots of opportunities for our GFJ participants to engage with our project.
Can you send us a recipe?
I wouldn’t say I am craving it… There have been a few times when I’ve been on the road thought, “I could go for a slice of pizza right now… Oh wait, I’m changing that.” It didn’t keep me from wanting pizza at that moment, but it wasn’t hard to fight either.
I can definitely send you a recipe! Do you want the enchiladas, the pizza or both?
On behalf of Donna and I, it has been such a pleasure to be on this journey with you. We hope that you have
found these 5 days to be supportive and helpful. Your honesty and openness in discussing such a
variety of topics is wonderful. You certainly have a lot to absorb and we’re looking forward to
hearing about where your journey takes you. This community is here for you – and it will be
wonderful when the next 5-Day Ghost-Free Journey takes place and you can add your words of
encouragement and wisdom.
We are also very grateful to all of the members of the Ghosts community who have added to the
discussions.
For the Ghosts,
Rosemary and Donna
Thanks Donna and Rosemary and everyone I got to talk to this week. It’s been really enlightening. After making some amazing vegan recipes, I feel a lot better about my ability to pass on cheese and eggs and moving toward giving them up entirely (plus, I’m a lot more confident in my ability to cook vegan food!)
I will keep in touch — I’ll send you recipes for the enchiladas and pizza, and within the next few days we’ll be going to a farm sanctuary, so I’ll let you know all about that too!
It’s been a pleasure!