Sonny’s Rescue Day with director Liz Marshall. By Jo-Anne McArthur.
We hope that Day 1 was stimulating and informative, as you navigated your way through discussions about dairy, from a food and ethical perspective . Of course, we’re all wondering how your grocery shopping went, as well as your first home-cooked dinner?
Do you feel like we covered the bases yesterday, or are there other aspects you’d like to discuss (dairy industry, experience of the cows, health issues related to dairy, etc)? If you’re satisfied with the depth of discussion yesterday we can move on to another topic. What is important for you to focus on today?
The opinions we express as GFJ Coaches are ours personally. We are not professional health practitioners. Neither are we treating a specific health care issue. That means we are not offering advice on health-care problems. If you are experiencing a health-care problem, it is important to seek the advice of a health professional. However we are experienced, practicing vegans and we look forward to coaching you on your journey..
It should be noted that the featured photo is of Sonny’s Rescue Day with director Liz Marshall. Photo by Jo-Anne McArthur.
I see so much love and tenderness in this moment.
That’s a really sweet photo. Is there more of this story available on the site somewhere? Oh, and Donna, re: your post yesterday (I just saw it), we are actually very near Bridgeport, so Bloodroot is going on the schedule for this week! (The menu looks amazing.)
Davis, there are a few other pictures. I will try to post them soon. In the meantime, I found this truly beautiful photo of Sonny (the calf who is in the featured pic) with 4 amazing women. Cheryl Legg is standing (she is a past participant of the 5-Day ghost-Free Journey). Seated from left to right – Coach Rosemary, Danielle Legg and Jo-Anne McArthur. The photo was taken last year at Farm Sanctuary.
[img]https://www.theghostsinourmachine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/SonnyandCrew.jpg[/img]
Well, we had a great dinner last night — enchiladas, not pizza, for those who were following. (I think I’ll try pizza tonight.)
Our local health food store is very friendly for shopping free of animal products. It’s not like some of the options I saw in NYC, obviously, but I had no problem. One thing I am starting is vitamins — I wonder if anyone thinks this is a good idea? I’d never taken them before. Is it necessary? (I picked up some vegan vitamins last night that came highly recommended.)
I am convinced that I can handle a home-cooked dinner non-dairy cheese — well, I should say, at least in recipes that don’t call for a cheese base. I almost see pizza tonight as phase two 🙂
I would not be opposed to talking about the dairy industry. I feel like I need to know more — way more, but I am a little wary. I may have mentioned, I’ve done some light research into factory farms before and it disturbed me to the point I had to back out. I’ve had a predilection towards caring for animals — and a skepticism for meat — my whole life, but that was around the time I first started thinking it might be best to eliminate all animal products.
Personally, think it’s wise to take a few basic vitamins as a vegan, especially if you do not eat a very balanced whole food diet to insure all nutrients. Based on my reading about nutrition, its seems that vitamin B 12 and vitamin D is the basic protocol for supplementation for vegans. That said, I am not a registered dietitian, but can point you toward nutrition information you may be inclined to research for yourself, or consult a nutritionist, registered dietitian, or md knowledgable in nutrition.
Jack Norris, RD
Ginny Messina, PhD, RD
Michael Greger, MD
Julianna Heaver, RD
What supplements did you purchase?
Good morning Davis!
It sounds like you had a wonderful dinner last night – yummy enchiladas! I’m so glad to hear that your local health food shop had everything that you needed.
As far as vitamins are concerned, it would be interesting to hear from others about what they do. If you are concerned about this, it would be a good idea to consult with a nutritionist. Everybody’s needs vary.
Could you elaborate some more on why you are wary about finding out more about the dairy industry ? We are here to help support you in any way that we can.
I want to know as much as I can about their practices — it’s just hard to look at it. (At the same time, I felt bad looking away, since I ate cheese and drank milk and so was part of this.) Photos and videos of factory farming really affect me. For anyone else, was exposure to photos and videos and research on the industry a driving force in giving up dairy?
(Note: As affecting as it is for me to see photos and videos from factory farms, it’s so encouraging and hopeful to see photos of rescued animals – that’s what brought me here in the first place! And I’m looking forward to meeting some in person this weekend.)
I understand your feelings and reactions completely, Davis. Seeing photos or fims of intense cruelties can make us feel so devestated – and can make us feel so hopeless too. I remember quite clearly how I felt when I first became aware – to say that I was shattered is an understatement. What helped me was getting involved in a local animal rights group – I met others who felt the same way and being active made me feel like it was possible to make a difference. The following is from the book “The New Vegetarians” published in1989 – “For some ethical vegetarians, humakind’s exploitation of animals becomes an obsession and they find it difficult to avoid dwelling continually on painful thoughts.”
I think it is important to acknowledge what you can handle emotionally. You are aware of the issues – and have even investigated these issues – so focusing on the positive and the beautiful (like the resuce of Fanny and Sonny) may help you best. You were drawn to the project because of rescue – it sounds like this is what will lead the way for you.
I often feel that it is animals who rescue us more than the other way around.
It would be great to hear from others about this and how they deal with thir feelings.
I totally agree with Donna, that you are wise to know your limitations about how much you can tolerate taking in of these brutal images, and reality. Maybe talking about it or reading may be less traumatizing? Let us know where you want to go with this, and we’re here to support you in your process.
This weekend, I was shocked in an opposite way. I spent the weekend in Toronto at the Veg Festival, eating, laughing, communing, and connecting with the Ghost Team, and several activist friends and veg-lovers. It was joyful, and a wonderful atmosphere to find myself being in…around folks who rescue, teach, write about, or make films… devoting much of their lives to making a peaceful world. I thought I was in heaven.
Then, just as we drove over the border from Canada to the US a live transport truck pulled out right next to our car….it was filled with helpless, beautiful cows on their way to slaughter. It was such a shock, to be in a blissful state of mind, singing along to fun tunes in the car…..to witnessing another aspect of reality. One that is easily unseen or forgotten. It is in the balance of these two extremes that I continue to seek peace and purpose. I hope you find your peace as well <3
I saw one of those transport trucks recently, too, on a cross-country road trip with my wife. It was full of pigs that just looked in complete misery, and we were both struck by how there was nothing we could do and no way to make it better. After seeing something like that it really helps to get to see an animal that was rescued from that and gets to live a full, happy life. Time to watch some farm sanctuary videos now, I think…
Happy day 2 Davis! As a response to your question about the images changing the way we think about what we eat (or drink)
Although I’d given up dairy simply because it was a product I really didn’t need, it was a story told by Rae Sikora that completely changed the way I looked at it. She told that she had lived near a farm, and one early morning had heard screaming. She thought it was a child so she rode her bike to the nearby dairy. The screaming was mother cows for their babies, and the babies calling back. The mothers were bloodied by the barbed wire they were pressed hard against, trying to get closer to their babies. That thought shook me, and made me absolutely certain that I would NEVER eat cheese or dairy ice cream again. It really just broke my heart.
That’s what happened to Fanny. It’s what happened to Sonny. Both ripped from their family, and from that love, for profit. Thank goodness both are safe now, and happy.
Hi Davis,
Sorry I couldn’t get online yesterday to comment, but I wanted to share with you the impact that seeing some of the footage at factory farms has had on me.
I became a vegetarian for environmental reasons, then a few days after, I watched food inc, and became vegan immediately after that. I haven’t seen a lot of animal suffering (I couldn’t get through watching earthlings for example) but what I have seen is enough. In the early days, when I was tempted to eat a piece of cheese, almost immediately I would be brought to a memory of seeing a dairy farm operation. That served to steel my wool as it were, and helped me get over the hump.
The images are hard to see, but for that reason, I believe it’s important that we see them.
Cheers
Judy
Thank you for posting about your experience, Judy. I think it points to everyone having their own unique starting point that motivates them, and what keeps them in line with what their values, ethics, or other reasons to making their own choices. I find it very fascinating that each of us has a particular experience or set of experiences that propels us to change. We also have differences in our capacity to tolerate visually disturbing images/sounds/written words.
By the way, on a much lighter note, after vegan breakfast this morning I will attest to everyone I know that Tofutti Cream Cheese is heavenly.
Yay!!! It’s great to hear that you enjoyed it! Before long, you will discover that not only are vegans not deprived of anything – but rather, they enjoy a broader range of delicious foods.
I second that Donna!
Just an update to everyone: I’m taking in the afternoon at my local coffee shop, where I usually get a grilled cheese panini for lunch, but this week went for the salad and a smoothie. I feel MUCH more energized afterwards — I’m only realizing now how that heavy, cheesy food generally left me a little lethargic in the afternoon!
Hi Davis, welcome! I can relate, I too had a love of cheese, particularly Italian cheesy dishes! It took me awhile to dump the dairy. I ate very little of it, but still had at least an ounce of cheese a day. Never had a problem giving up meat though, it was something I really never cared for since I was a child.
I did experiment with cheese alternatives, but years ago the only ones available tasted awful in my opinion. But now there are many great alternatives on the market: The Daiya white shreds are great for any type of Italian style dish that requires melted cheese. The yellow shreds more for grilled cheese or the enchiladas you had last night.
For a more gourmet type cheese, I would recommend Dr Cow, although it is expensive. I indulge on occasion and order it from Veganessentials.com or Veganstore.com. I hear the new Treeline cheese is excellent too, can’t wait to try it!
There are also so many nut cheese recipes out there. I just received the latest issue of Vegnews magazine which just so happens to be the cheese issue. They have recipes for every type of cheese, including cream cheese. Looks amazing! Nut cheeses taste so great and are very satisfying. I am in love with cashew cheese lasagna!
In answer to your question above: I would say yes, looking at photos and reading more about the dairy industry was the push I needed. I really cannot stand what is occurring in this industry, so much suffering for the mother cow and the baby. I always loathed veal, but didn’t realize I was indirectly supporting this vile industry.
I really do not miss cheese. At this time just the odor of it is really unappealing to me. I know I feel so much better too, mentally and physically.
Best of luck to you Davis!
Diane, I’m so glad that you brought up all of the nut cheeses! Davis, you will be amazed at all of the wonderful versions that can be purchased or made at home. And speaking of VegNews, here’s a link to what looks like some very yummy non-dairy cheese recipes:
https://vegnews.com/articles/page.do?pageId=4866&catId=2
Nut cheese… Mouthwatering. Can’t wait to try this.
Question for any & all: I have some friends who are as appalled as I am about the dairy industry, but say alternatives like small co-ops (usually farms with goats) are another way to avoid all this. This is what I stuck to for over a year, and after visiting one farm I did feel like it was at least better than supporting industrial dairy — what do you think? I can’t help but suspect that even the most well-intentioned farm will end up killing young male goats who aren’t “needed” for the operation. Is this the case?
Hi Davis,
So interesting watching your experiences with this journey. In terms of organic or “humane” farms, it is a contentious issue. Some would argue that no matter how you justify it, the lives of nonhuman animals are negatively affected by consumption of meat and dairy and other animals by-products, no matter what because it give permission to continue to consume products that are based on a system of cruelty and hierarchy. And this includes the “humane meat” movement. I choose not to support this consciousness at all and therefore not participate in consumption. It is ethical and spiritual for me.
You also mentioned how difficult it is to see images of the cruelty inherent in this industry. It is very, very difficult. It makes me feel physically sick. However, I also believe in bearing witness to suffering as a form of resistance to injustice. I tell myself, if the nonhuman animals have to live this their entire lives, surely I can bear witness for 5 minutes. And it is the hardest 5 minutes always! It can be haunting. I also tell myself, that by bearing witness, I know better how to talk about it to others to “be the change I want to see”. I know not everyone will do this, but I do this for the nonhuman animals.
Vitamins…well, I used to work in the health food industry decades ago and became quite jaded actually. I think we need to look at our lifestyle and food choices more closely…because we can get all that we need from them if we do it right. Having said that, I do now take a raw vegan B complex vitamin, did take a raw vitamin D supplement for awhile and also take a liquid vegan iron. I am fortunate in that I am very healthy….strong eastern european roots….thanks Granny!
It is so inspiring to read your reflections, Davis. You are insightful, emotional and funny. All things we need in this movement to help the animals. Have a great dinner!
On “Family Farms” I grew up on one, I can tell you our animals were well cared for, in the sense that they needed to be well enough to make money. I played with the animals, and they were like family (well, the kind of family you’d eat, so family may be the wrong word) No matter how they live, in a factory farm cramped and miserable, or on a small farm, their fate is the same. One day someone decides it’s their day to die. This is the same for dairy.
Even on a small farm babies have to be taken from their mothers. Mothers still mourn that loss, still call out for their babies. Babies are then sold for meat, raised for milk, or sold as pets. No matter what, those babies never stay with their mother.
This is a very interesting question, Davis. Did you ask aout this issue when you visited that farm?
At the time I was much newer to the issue, and to be honest, it hadn’t occurred to me. But as time has gone on I’ve started to think that it’s impossible to avoid the industrial system — it’s just the nature of the beast. After all, no matter what the conditions, taking milk from a mother is still denying milk to her calf or kid, right? I’m no longer at all sure there is a morally acceptable way to do it at all.
Again on a lighter note, I’m getting everything ready for the jalapeno / mushroom vegan pizza tonight! I’ll let you know how it goes.
It sounds like you have gotten to the core of the issue – “taking milk from a mother is still denying milk to her calf or kid, right? “. That is how I feel, too. It’s interesting how we don’t find our way into this realization until we start to peel back the layers – you are doing a lot of peeling these past few days. This is a great issue to discuss in more detail.
And also on a lighter note- we’re looking forward to heaing about pizza night later on.
Hi !
I’m sorry I haven’t been available much today due to my work schedule. I have a short break now, and took some time to read everyone’s posts today. The discussion is stimulating and challenging, but also so thoughtful and reflective from each and every one.
Davis, are there any resources left, that we can point you toward, or discuss any other aspects of what has already been brought to light? There is certainly enough to mull over and reflect upon, but just in case….
Can’t wait to hear about more kitchen adventures!
Everyone was beyond happy with the pizza. I tried a cheese blend (Daiya and Follow Your Heart.) The Daiya was jack, which combined with the jalapenos and crushed red peppers made for a super-spicy pizza, perfect for our palates. I was VERY impressed with how the cheese melted! (Especially from my few-and-far-between experiences with vegan cheese in the past, which had left me skeptical about its being able to melt just right.)
I’ll tell you more about it tonight, but gotta wrap up and head to bed. See you tomorrow!
Davis! This is great news, and thank you for sharing. I’m curious about how you made your dough??
Hello!
I just wanted to weigh in a little bit on the negative influencers (watching images of suffering) vs. the positive influencers (enjoying time with a supportive community). I teach a seminar to undergraduates in marketing on the ethics of marketing, in which we discuss which kind of influencer is more motivating. The debate is in no way absolute one way or the other, but the general marketing principle is that negative influencers have a huge initial impact on peoples’ motivation to change, but positive influencers work better for the long haul. I think we should bear witness to the tragedies that occur in the meat, egg, and dairy industries, but if we are looking for pure motivation to change, some people may be better motivated by positive influencers. By the way, the GFJ is a huge positive influencer! Hooray!